Muslim Community Lobby Ireland is an independent organization established 1st May 2007. Its motto is TO USE THE VOTE RIGHTLY AND TO RAISE THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY AWARNESS WITH THEIR RIGHTS AND TO PROMOTE TOLERANCE AND UNDERSTANDING OF OTHER EXISTING GROUPS. لترشيد استعمال الصوت الانتخابي ولتوعية وتعريف المسلمين بحقوقهم في ايرلندا وان يعيشوا بتفهم للواقع وللجماعات الاخرى الموجودة على الساحة
Thursday, November 6, 2008
This week Fosis is having a talk on "Islamic Revivalism in the 20th Century" and a one day course on "Chronicle of Islamic Political Thought". The talk is on 7th Nov. 08 at 6pm in Trinity College and the Course is on 8th Nov. 08 at 9am in trinity college (course is 6 euro for students and 10 euro for adults, lecture on friday is free). visit http://www.fosisirelandchapter.com/?p=90 for the poster.
There will be plenty to ask and debate on as the speaker Dr. Azzam Tamimi is an expert in this field.
The talk will mention the islamic history on revivalism from the begining like Umar Bin Abdul Aziz, Ibn Taimiyah, Abu Hamid Al Ghazzali to the 18th and 19th century until modern day revivalism which includes individuals like Jamal-Uddin Afghani, Said Nursi, Hassan Al Banna.
The political thought course will discuss, Political thought itself of the west and its historical prespective. Then moving to what Islamic political thought is and the scources ie the Quran, Sunnah, Ijma (consensus) and Ijtihad.
Also will be mentioned political thought during the time of the seal of Prophethood Muhammad Bin Abdullah (SAW), the 4 righteous Chaliphs, The Fitnah between Imam Ali (Radiallahuanhu) and Amir Muawiya (Radiallahuanhu) and the formation of the Khawarij sect and the Shia sect, then going to the political thought of famous Muslim individuals like Ibn Khuldun, Al-Mawardi, Al-Shabiti and Ibn Taimiyah ie details of Shariah.
Then going into the political thinking of intellectuals like Muhammad Iqbal, Abu'Ala Mawdudi and Sayyid Qutb including the latters famous categorization of Tawheed Al-Hakimiyah. Also discudding Islam and Demorcay, Islam and secularism, and Islam and Human rights.
All this inshAllah next week so do come and discount for those that live in gorey :). And we can debate together in the venue.
Here is Imam Anwars opinions on democracy http://www.kalamullah.com/anwaral-awlaki.html and this article about groups joining the democratic system http://www.anwar-alawlaki.com/2008/08/29/a-question-about-the-method-of-establishing-khilafa/
Again an interesting prespective.
By registering on the electoral register, you will have a vote and an option of choosing a candidate who will best benefit the Muslim community. The attached leaflet outlines the conditions for voting as well as providing a scholarly opinion on the necessity of voting in these times.
2 Salaam,jazakallahu khair for the email. I believe Muslims in Ireland should make steps towards 'Block Voting.' This is the only way Muslim votes will count otherwise they will be divided up just as much as the general electorate and will be useless. This happened when women got the right to vote in America and everywhere in the world. Certain political parties believed that women would be more prone to vote for a their party, where in reality, women were similarly divided among party lines as men thus not really having an effect on elections.If Muslims in Ireland can establish block voting, the Muslim vote will mean something and politicians will actively seek the 10-20,000 votes Muslims can provide. But if we are just as divided as the general electorate, there is no reason to work for our vote and support our agendas.Any thoughts?
3 Astughfirullah...Brothers voting in a democracy is completely Haram... Democracy in itself is a system of Kufr that allows man to make laws that can be against God's Law and elected representatives make laws based upon their own mind and/or majority opinion... I would advise all muslims to refrain from voting in any election be it local or general... and before anyone of you goes haywire over this I am willing and capable to discuss this issue with any of you in the most polite and well mannered way... I am saying this to tread on side of caution since I have seen that at times people speak in a very uncivilized manner when it comes down to certain things they passionately believe in...Masalama
Dr Qasim Afridi
4 Salams Qasim,
This is why it's important to discuss the issue. It isn't as clear cut as Hizb-ut-Tahrir have made out, obviously as the scholars have ruled on its permissibility. If you'd like to present your points in an open forum then by all means please do.However, from a purely pragmatic basis the Khilafah will NEVER be restored unless there is some form of political engagement so it's Catch 22 for the Hizbs. Anyway, look forward to your reply.Hope baby and family are well.Was salam
5 JazakAllah Khair Liam for your comment...Please forgive me if at any time you feel I am enraged... You know I m not and its just my writing style...I cant speak for the Hizb since I am not a member of the organization... I would however be more than willing to organize a meeting with their top members for them to come down and discuss these matters with the muslim community as to what our stance should be regarding these issues... They are very clear on the subject of democracy and there is a booklet about this... Heres the link for that...As for matters of engaging politics in non muslim lands there is no harm in conveying your problems and issues to politicians... however you can do that without voting for them as we all know you yourself did when you took the issue of Hijab...I m willing ot discuss but I dont want Salafi scholars to come inbetween us... If you want to quote the position of the salaf I have no problems with that but then they have to be scholars who hold the Saudi Regime in contempt and do not consider them legitimate... there are a few of those scholars unfortunately among the salaf but they are around...
Correction... when I said the following...there are a few of those scholars unfortunately among the salaf but they are around...I meant this...Unfortunately there are very few such scholars among the salaf but they are around...As for the link for the book about Democracy being a system of Kufr...
6 Assalaam Alaikum brothers.This debate took too long. In Islam we may do Haraam things if that will avoid causing something more Haraam. Example, we may eat Haraam food if that will save our life from death. (killing life (without the right cause) is higher sin than eating haraam food). The issue of voting is not a declaration that we believe in that system or that group. It is a matter of choosing the bad to avoid the worse. It is as simple as that. I don't know what brought Salafi and Tahriri in this argument. Can we not limit our discussion to the main subject and try to come with a conclusion rather than try to force some body's opinions.Wassalaam
7 Salams Ahmad, Absolutely, the scholars have already spoken on this and while the Hizb brothers may have arguments, they've never offered a viable alternative. And as you say, we are not declaring the kuffar system as being better, we are simply working pragmatically within an existing system in an effort to improve our lot. We must work on getting this message out so that in June, we have a united voice and inshaAllah more power to bring about the benefits we all seek.JazakAllahu khairan for your thoughts.
8 AA...Right finally brothers this Mujaahid has serious issues... He just sent me an email which shows to me that he does not have even a basic understanding of issues of ruling in Islam... I m stating in public that I have nothing to do with him anymore... He twists and turns Shariah anyway that he likes fit for himself... He is fully in the pockets of the Saudi regime and has openly stated that he seeks donation and funding from them... He is one of the most hated people on Politics.ie and spreads his fake salafi opinions as Islam everywhere... He has a typical Salafi mindset where he even called me someone who is easily fooled... I am not participating is such Jahiliyah anymore... As for those who know him and are not Salafis themselves... Just be careful and stay clear of him at all costs...
9 AA...Yes... the european council of fatwa and research? Is that the council that gave the fatwa that Riba is allowed?That list of scholars was interesting too... It included one Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra whom I remember back in 2003 while I was living in England stated that Muslims in Britain should make Dua for the British troops that have gone to fight the war in Iraq since we are all British and these soldiers are OUR BOYS!!!!Heres someone who does not call himself a scholar yet obviously understand the issue at hand...Listen carefully to Taji Mustafa in the following video...http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/press-centre/press-release/foreign-press-association-in-london-invites-taji-mustafa-to-debate-islam-and-democracy.htmlFinally... My only duty was to warn and inform... The rest is all upto you brothers and sisters... Fe Aman Allah
Shaikh Waseeullaah Abbaas (Makkah)
when asked about voting in non-Muslim
countries responded: “By voting the
Muslims may gain needed influence over
politicians and other authorities. In
return, these politicians and authorities
may do something that will benefit Islam
and the Muslims.” This gem of advice
contains an important principle, that of
weighing up the benefit and harm.
Shaikh Waseeullaah further adds, “They
will win by the votes of non-Muslims
regardless if the Muslims vote or not.
For this reason, the Muslims should use
their vote as a favor to these candidates.
As a result, the Muslims will be placed in
an advantageous position of influence
over these candidates.”Whether we vote
or not, these people will still get their
seats. However, our vote may bring us
benefits that we as a community might
otherwise miss. The Shaikh concludes,
“This is also the verdict given by our
Shaykhs in India. Even Shaykh Bin Baaz
(may Allah have mercy on him), from
what we have heard used to rule on the
permissibility of participating in
Shaikh Al Albani was asked a
similar question and replied, “If the
Muslims do not choose between them,
then their own people will choose. In
either case, one of them is going to be
elected.” We ask why not make a choice
that will bring some benefit to the
In June 2008, both Labour and
Fine Gael publically announced their
desire to see the hijab banned in state
schools. Ruairi Quinn of the Labour
party was particularly hateful in his
comments and insultingly stated that,
“Irish girls do not wear headscarves”,
Brian Hayes, his Fine Gael counterpart,
went as far as reinterpreting the Quran.
Fellow Muslims, a community
strong vote against these parties will
send a strong message to our
government and will change the face of
politics and Muslims in Ireland.
By Liam Egan (Mujahid)