Typical argument between Muslims with regard to voting

The upcoming local council elections in 2009 offer the Muslim community a unique opportunity to shape the politic here in Ireland. As a community we are disproportionately underrepresented on a local and national level - you can change that!
By registering on the electoral register, you will have a vote and an option of choosing a candidate who will best benefit the Muslim community. The attached leaflet outlines the conditions for voting as well as providing a scholarly opinion on the necessity of voting in these times.

Was-salam

Mujaahid


2 Salaam,jazakallahu khair for the email. I believe Muslims in Ireland should make steps towards 'Block Voting.' This is the only way Muslim votes will count otherwise they will be divided up just as much as the general electorate and will be useless. This happened when women got the right to vote in America and everywhere in the world. Certain political parties believed that women would be more prone to vote for a their party, where in reality, women were similarly divided among party lines as men thus not really having an effect on elections.If Muslims in Ireland can establish block voting, the Muslim vote will mean something and politicians will actively seek the 10-20,000 votes Muslims can provide. But if we are just as divided as the general electorate, there is no reason to work for our vote and support our agendas.Any thoughts?
Jawad

3 Astughfirullah...Brothers voting in a democracy is completely Haram... Democracy in itself is a system of Kufr that allows man to make laws that can be against God's Law and elected representatives make laws based upon their own mind and/or majority opinion... I would advise all muslims to refrain from voting in any election be it local or general... and before anyone of you goes haywire over this I am willing and capable to discuss this issue with any of you in the most polite and well mannered way... I am saying this to tread on side of caution since I have seen that at times people speak in a very uncivilized manner when it comes down to certain things they passionately believe in...Masalama

Dr Qasim Afridi

4 Salams Qasim,
This is why it's important to discuss the issue. It isn't as clear cut as Hizb-ut-Tahrir have made out, obviously as the scholars have ruled on its permissibility. If you'd like to present your points in an open forum then by all means please do.However, from a purely pragmatic basis the Khilafah will NEVER be restored unless there is some form of political engagement so it's Catch 22 for the Hizbs. Anyway, look forward to your reply.Hope baby and family are well.Was salam

Mujaahid

5 JazakAllah Khair Liam for your comment...Please forgive me if at any time you feel I am enraged... You know I m not and its just my writing style...I cant speak for the Hizb since I am not a member of the organization... I would however be more than willing to organize a meeting with their top members for them to come down and discuss these matters with the muslim community as to what our stance should be regarding these issues... They are very clear on the subject of democracy and there is a booklet about this... Heres the link for that...As for matters of engaging politics in non muslim lands there is no harm in conveying your problems and issues to politicians... however you can do that without voting for them as we all know you yourself did when you took the issue of Hijab...I m willing ot discuss but I dont want Salafi scholars to come inbetween us... If you want to quote the position of the salaf I have no problems with that but then they have to be scholars who hold the Saudi Regime in contempt and do not consider them legitimate... there are a few of those scholars unfortunately among the salaf but they are around...
Masalama

Correction... when I said the following...there are a few of those scholars unfortunately among the salaf but they are around...I meant this...Unfortunately there are very few such scholars among the salaf but they are around...As for the link for the book about Democracy being a system of Kufr...

Qasim

6 Assalaam Alaikum brothers.This debate took too long. In Islam we may do Haraam things if that will avoid causing something more Haraam. Example, we may eat Haraam food if that will save our life from death. (killing life (without the right cause) is higher sin than eating haraam food). The issue of voting is not a declaration that we believe in that system or that group. It is a matter of choosing the bad to avoid the worse. It is as simple as that. I don't know what brought Salafi and Tahriri in this argument. Can we not limit our discussion to the main subject and try to come with a conclusion rather than try to force some body's opinions.Wassalaam
Best Regards
Ahmed El-Habbash,

7 Salams Ahmad, Absolutely, the scholars have already spoken on this and while the Hizb brothers may have arguments, they've never offered a viable alternative. And as you say, we are not declaring the kuffar system as being better, we are simply working pragmatically within an existing system in an effort to improve our lot. We must work on getting this message out so that in June, we have a united voice and inshaAllah more power to bring about the benefits we all seek.JazakAllahu khairan for your thoughts.

Mujaahid

8 AA...Right finally brothers this Mujaahid has serious issues... He just sent me an email which shows to me that he does not have even a basic understanding of issues of ruling in Islam... I m stating in public that I have nothing to do with him anymore... He twists and turns Shariah anyway that he likes fit for himself... He is fully in the pockets of the Saudi regime and has openly stated that he seeks donation and funding from them... He is one of the most hated people on Politics.ie and spreads his fake salafi opinions as Islam everywhere... He has a typical Salafi mindset where he even called me someone who is easily fooled... I am not participating is such Jahiliyah anymore... As for those who know him and are not Salafis themselves... Just be careful and stay clear of him at all costs...
Masalama
Qasim

9 AA...Yes... the european council of fatwa and research? Is that the council that gave the fatwa that Riba is allowed?That list of scholars was interesting too... It included one Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra whom I remember back in 2003 while I was living in England stated that Muslims in Britain should make Dua for the British troops that have gone to fight the war in Iraq since we are all British and these soldiers are OUR BOYS!!!!Heres someone who does not call himself a scholar yet obviously understand the issue at hand...Listen carefully to Taji Mustafa in the following video...http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/press-centre/press-release/foreign-press-association-in-london-invites-taji-mustafa-to-debate-islam-and-democracy.htmlFinally... My only duty was to warn and inform... The rest is all upto you brothers and sisters... Fe Aman Allah
Qasim

The Muslim Vote

What the scholars say about voting

Shaikh Waseeullaah Abbaas (Makkah)
when asked about voting in non-Muslim
countries responded: “By voting the
Muslims may gain needed influence over
politicians and other authorities. In
return, these politicians and authorities
may do something that will benefit Islam
and the Muslims.” This gem of advice
contains an important principle, that of
weighing up the benefit and harm.
Shaikh Waseeullaah further adds, “They
will win by the votes of non-Muslims
regardless if the Muslims vote or not.
For this reason, the Muslims should use
their vote as a favor to these candidates.
As a result, the Muslims will be placed in
an advantageous position of influence
over these candidates.”Whether we vote
or not, these people will still get their
seats. However, our vote may bring us
benefits that we as a community might
otherwise miss. The Shaikh concludes,
“This is also the verdict given by our
Shaykhs in India. Even Shaykh Bin Baaz
(may Allah have mercy on him), from


what we have heard used to rule on the
permissibility of participating in
elections.”
Shaikh Al Albani was asked a
similar question and replied, “If the
Muslims do not choose between them,
then their own people will choose. In
either case, one of them is going to be
elected.” We ask why not make a choice
that will bring some benefit to the
Muslims?
In June 2008, both Labour and
Fine Gael publically announced their
desire to see the hijab banned in state
schools. Ruairi Quinn of the Labour
party was particularly hateful in his
comments and insultingly stated that,
“Irish girls do not wear headscarves”,
Brian Hayes, his Fine Gael counterpart,
went as far as reinterpreting the Quran.
Fellow Muslims, a community
strong vote against these parties will
send a strong message to our
government and will change the face of
politics and Muslims in Ireland.

By Liam Egan (Mujahid)

voting in the 2009 Council Elections تدعوالبلدبة الجميع لانتخابات 2009

Interviewing Cormack O'Donnell
The strategic manager in the office of Integration in the Dublin City Council

Regadless of your status in Ireland, if you are over 18 years of age by 15th Feb 2009 you are eligible to vote.

لك حق التصويت ايها المواطن او الزائر: لا يهم وضع اقامتك في ايرلندا لك الحق في التصويت البلدي وان تختار ممثلك. ما دم عمرك 18 سنة في يوم 15 فبراير 2009

Harney, Harney, Harney no cuts no cuts

Mary Harney TD Minister for Health and Children ... came under attack by thousands of angry demonstrators on Saturday 11th Oct 2008. They were shouting Harney, Harney, Harney no cuts no cuts. There were speeches at the end by family members whose their loved ones died, according to them, due to back cuts on health. They say that Brian Lenihan TD, Minister of Finance guaranteed all the major banks, while he had no money to improve the health service in the country! Where people don't have beds in the hospital and have to wait more than 1 or 2 days in the hall way to get bed in the ward.

الوف المتظاهرين جابوا شوارع العاصمة الايرلنية دبلن يوم السبت الموافق 11 اكتوبر 2008 وكانوا قد تظاهروا ضد سياسة وزيرة الصحة ماري هارني, في قطعها بعض الاموال على المستشفيات وبعض المرافق الصحية, وضمان البنوك من قبل وزير المالية الايرلندي وعدم ضخ هده الاموال في اصلاح الصحة التي في حالة من التخبط . وابدى المتظاهرون اندهاشهم بقدرة الحكومة على تامين المال الللازم للمصارف التي آلة للخسارة والمحافظة عليها وبسرعة فائقة, في حين ان الصحة تحتاج الى تلك الاموال ولا يمكن تامينها للمستشفيات. وقد انتهت المظاهرة بالسماع لممثلي العائلات اللاتي قد مات احداهن بسبب قلة العناية الصحية كما يزعمون وبسبب قلة المال في القطاع الصحي.

Eid Celebration اجواء العيد بدبلن

Celebrating Eid AlFitre اجواء العيد في دبلن2008

RCSU Eid Dinner4th Oct Saturday at 6pm in Exam Hall

RCSU Eid Dinner4th Oct Saturday at 6pm in Exam Hall,
Ticket entry is 4 euro to getin.Organised by RCSU,RCSI isoc, PMCA and Fosis Ireland Chapter.
From the Vatican to Al Azhar tour, 17th October-26th October 2008
Speaker: Idris Tawfiq (Ex-Roman Catholic Priest, Now a Muslim Speaker.His full biography is below after events list)

17 Oct 08Meeting with Primate of Ireland, the Most Rev Dr John Neill, AnglicanArchbishop of Dublin2.30 pm
Talk: From the Vatican to Al Azhar : My journey to IslamLaunch of FOSIS BookshopAstra Hall, University College Dublin7.00pm hosted by University College Dublin Islamic Society18 Oct 08Dawah Training Workshop (by invitation only)
Royal College of Surgeons Ireland10 amhosted by Royal College of Surgeons Ireland Islamic Society19 Oct 08
Visit to Muslim Youth Ireland (MY-Ireland) Islamic Information Tableie The Dawaah Stall (in front of GPO, O Connell St. Dublin)
Radio Interview : 'Islam in Focus'NearFM 4.30pm at Near 90.3 Fm hosted by Br Abdul HaseebTalk in Dublin Mosque after Maghrib prayershosted by Islamic Foundation Ireland20 Oct 08Meeting with Lord Mayor of Dublin1030am Mansion House, DublinTalk: Who wants to be Muslim these days?
Boole 2University College Cork7.00pm hosted by Muslim Cultural Society University College Cork 21 Oct 08Meeting with Lord Mayor of Cork2.00pm Cork
Talk: On Erin's Green Valleys: The future of Islam in Irelandhosted by Cork Mosque22 Oct 08 Meeting with Mayor of Limerick4.00 pmLimerick23 Oct 08

Talk: Muslims, Christians and the Real JesusLarge Lecture Theater Clinical Science (CSI)National University of Ireland Galway7.00pm hosted by Muslim Youth Society National University of Ireland Galway24 Oct 08
Talk: Is Religion Relevant today? Closing CeremonyRobert Emmet Theater, Trinity College Dublin7.00pmhosted by Muslim Students Association Trinity College Dublin Idris Tawfiq has a degree in English language and Literature from theUniversity of Manchester and a degree in Sacred Theology from thePontifical University of Saint Thomas Aquinas in Rome. For many yearshe was Head of Religious Studies in different schools in England andWales and has much experience of teaching, both in the UK and Egypt.Before embracing Islam, Idris was a Roman Catholic priest.As a writer, Idris Tawfiq has written for newspapers and periodicalsin the United Kingdom and is now a regular contributor and Consultantto http://www.islamonline.net/ and http://www.readingislam.com/. He writes a weeklyarticle in Egyptian Mail, Egypt's oldest English-language newspaper,and Sawt Al-Azhar, the newspaper of Al-Azhar University. He is theauthor of Gardens of Delight: a simple introduction to Islam (2005).Travelling all over the globe, Idris speaks about Islam both to groupsand on television and radio.He has appeared in an article by Mary Fitzgerald of Irish Times(11/08/2006)http://www.ireland.com/focus/gageby/underthecrescent/tawfiq.htmFor further details please visit http://www.fosisirelandchapter.com/?p=79-- This is a responsible information based e-mail. If you DO NOT wish toreceive further emails, simply contact http://ie.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=eireislamicevents@gmail.com and you willbe removed from the list immediately.Please NOTE Éire Islamic Events does NOT take responsibility for any of theevents, notices or comments, presented in this e-mail bulletin, other than its own. Those who are interested in taking part inany event or enquiring about a particular notice, should contact the appropriate organisations or individuals. This e-mail is offered as a community service, and is compiled on a best endeavours basis.If you wish to put up an announcement please email Éire Islamic Events on eireislamicevents@gmail.com

We reserve the right to edit submissions and not to include requests.

Source: RCSU