Brian Hayes and Ruiari Quinn Hijab Debate with Bashir at the Dial

Debating Ruiari Quinn and Brian Hayes at the Irish Parliament room in the (Dial) Tuesday 8/7/2008.

ندوة بين روري كوين من حزب العمال وبراين هيز من فينا قيل وبشير من اللوبي المسلم في البرلمان الايرلندي (الدووييل) يوم الثلاثاء الماضي 8/7/2008

وكان محور النقاش هو العلمانية والحجاب واحترام الاديان في الدول العلمانية. وقد قرأت آية الحجاب في القران بالانجليزي لاقناعهما بانها قانون اسلامي وليس عادة. وان النساء لهن كامل الحرية في أي بلد في العالم بان يرتدين الحجاب ام لا ولا للاباء يد في عقابهن اذا لم يردن لباس الحجاب لانه امر ايماني. وان بناتنا يرتدين الحجاب بارادتهن كما تفعل المراة المسلمة عند ما تعتنق الاسلام. وانهن يلبسن الحجاب منتاسقا مع البدلة المدرسية في اللون والذوق. وان الحجاب ليس شعارا للاسلام وان شعارنا هو الهلال الذي تجده فوق مآذن المساجد. وان السياسيين لا يجب ان يتدخلوا في امر مثل هذا الا اذا كانوا يؤيدون الحجاب. وان عداء المسلمين في ايرلندا والعالم ليس من الحكمة في شئ. وان الايرلنديين كانوا يفجرون لندن وبرمنجهام وكانوا مطلوبيين للمحاكم البريطانية فلا يجب ان تضيقوا على المسلمين بسبب دينهم. وان اذا لم نستطع المحافظة على ديننا فماذا تريدوننا ان نفعل ؟ هل تريدوننا ان نشرب الخمر ونخرج الى المراقص ونتعاطى الحشيش والافيون والابر وما الى ذلك ام تريدون ان نتقابل في نقاط ما بين الثقافة الاسلامية والثقافة الايرلندية. ثم ان الايرلنديين في بريطانيا وامريكا لا زالوا يحتفظون بثقافتهم وعاداتهم بل لهم حانات خاصة واماكن تجمع خاصة ولا زالوا يحيون بهاديز داي فلما لا نحترم ثقافاتنا ونفهم بعضنا ونتفهم مشاكلنا ونعيش في سلام.

The subject of the debate is that how come a secular state would interfere with religious teachings when no harm done to others? there seem to be a misleading understanding of the whole issue of the Hijab. To our information the headmaster of the Wexford school has accepted Hijab with no further problem. Trying to talk to both Brian Hayes and Ruiari Quinn to ask them not to back the idea of banning Hijab from school.

1. Introduction to Hijab
What we would love to see in this life is harmony respect decency tolerance discipline understanding and caring. these attributes have to be enforced in our society, for the well being of our children.
The symbol of Islam is the Crescent and Star which you would find on top of the Mosque. Hijab is not a symbol of Islam, but it is a must and a task has to be observed by women. Hijab is not a matter of choice, it is an order from Allah, as the Quran prescribes. It was explained to Brian Hayes and Ruiari Quinn that and shown the verse in Quran.
Sisters of Jewish and Christian faith observe the Hijab. Islam, Christianity and Jewdism are all heaven religions which unite in wearing Hijab, and they are similar in many decent values
, for instance, be good to your neighbour, don’t thieve, don’t hurt others, be nice to your parents, and so on. Still some christian sisters wear Hijab up to now in Ireland. In fact holy Mary always pictured with Hijab, in schools and we saw Mother Teresa in Hijab and today still we see most religious women of different faiths wear the Hijab. Only recently Hijab was popular in catholic Ireland. In fact many still remember those days in Ireland where their own mothers wear hijab to meet an outsider man. I myself heard on the radio a woman from rural Ireland disgusted with the way that young girls walking naked in O'Cornell street because the woman think their wear is not decent. As politicians you suppose to be grown up in a decent religious and conservative society in Ireland.

2 Secularism is today’s government slogan they claim that government officials don’t interfere with religions, and pay every respect to them. Yet we find religion interfered with!

3 Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of security to everyone (man and women). Headscarf is what women will wear because of her belief. If secular regimes will take away such a freedom, then secular is tilting towards dictatorship.

4 We as Muslims living in Ireland don’t feel that the Irish have any problem with the hijab, the Irish people are used to have nuns and religious people.

5 Hijab in school does not interfere with the pupil’s work and does not interfere with the teacher giving the lessen and it blends very well with the uniform. There is no problem with Hijab in schools.

6 Politicians should never interfere with a religious act that does not harm anyone. Specially when it is a way of life like Hijab.

7 You will alienate Muslim parents and they will pull their daughters from the government schools. This has a very negative effect on integration and pushing them into the other side. You defeat the object of being a secular regime which it should encamps all faiths and let them live in perfect harmony.
Being target it, is always make you vulnerable, and vulnerable people can't feel safe. you as a politician have taken it to look like “if you don’t like it get out of the country” what about the Irish and the British Muslims who originally are white and adopted the faith.They have the right to the country like anyone else.

8 School uniform is adhered to by the young Muslim girls, and kept the way it should be rightly. There is no problem in wearing it and the headscarf blends with it.
Why should politicians interfere with Hijab:
Headmasters and headmistresses always commented good on girls with headscarf never there is any problem. So why you need to interfere with it as a politician. If any school wishes to stop Hijab then let that school take the parents to the court to stop their child wearing Hijab or find an alternative school.

Brian Hayes and Ruiari Quinn Hijab Debate with Bashir at the Dial 1

Brian Hayes and Ruiari Quinn Hijab Debate with Bashir at the Dial 2

Brian Hayes and Ruiari Quinn Hijab Debate with Bashir at the Dial 3

Brian Hayes and Ruiari Quinn Hijab Debate with Bashir at the Dial 4

Brian Hayes and Ruiari Quinn Hijab Debate with Bashir at the Dial 5

Brian Hayes and Ruiari Quinn Hijab Debate with Bashir at the Dial 6

Part 7

Part 8

Part 9

Part 10

Ruairi Quinn and Brian Hayes against Hijab..Why?

Patricia McDonagh
Monday June 02 2008
MUSLIM girls should not be allowed to wear a headscarf in public schools, the two main opposition parties said last night.
Labour's Ruairi Quinn said immigrants who come to Ireland need to conform to the culture of this country.
"If people want to come into a western society that is Christian and secular, they need to conform to the rules and regulations of that country," the Labour spokesman on education and science told the Irish Independent.
His comments come amid mounting controversy over guidelines on the wearing of the hijab, commonly worn by Muslim girl in state schools.
His stance on the issue was backed by his Fine Gael counterpart Brian Hayes, who says it makes "absolute sense" that there is one uniform for everyone.
The Fine Gael education spokesman said the wearing of the hijab was not a fundamental requirement to be a Muslim, but more an example of modesty and cultural mores.
Recently, Nicholas Sweetman, principal of Gorey Community School, Co Wexford, called for official direction to bring an end to the practice of schools imposing divergent policies.
The Wexford controversy followed the Department of Education's refusal to offer advice to the school when a Muslim couple asked last September that their daughter be allowed to wear the headscarf in class.
Mr Quinn said immigrants should live by Irish laws and conform to Irish norms.
"Nobody is formally asking them to come here. In the interests of integration and assimilation, they should embrace our culture," he said.
He added: "Irish girls don't wear headscarves. A manifestation of religious beliefs in such a way is unacceptable and draws attention to those involved. I believe in a public school situation they should not wear a headscarf."
Mr Hayes said Ireland should not be going down the route of multiculturalism.
"It makes absolute sense that there would be one uniform for everyone. The wearing of the hijab is not about religiosity, it is more an example of modesty. It is not a fundamental requirement to be a Muslim," he said.
But Fine Gael and Labour's position on the controversy sparked an angry reaction.
Islamic Society of Ireland spokesperson Summayah Kenna branded the comments by Mr Hayes and Mr Quinn as "baffling", adding the hijab was a religious obligation.
She said she was "shocked" by Mr Hayes' assertion that it was otherwise, and urged him to check up on his information.
And director of the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism Philip Watt said the "ill-thought" comments from both political figures were "disappointing".
Last night, a spokesperson for Integration Minister Conor Lenihan said he had no problem with students wearing the hijab.
"For those that wear the hijab, it's an issue of modesty. It's not so long since Irish women wore headscarves to church, so we have to respect that," the spokesperson said.
At present, individual school authorities are responsible for the drawing up of school rules, including school-uniform requirements.
But the Education Act requires school boards to have respect for the diversity of values, beliefs and traditions.
The Department of Education said last night it had asked Mr Lenihan to consider the matter in the context of the development of an Intercultural Education Strategy.
It said nothing would be ruled in or out until after talks take place.
- Patricia McDonagh

French plan seeks to to expel more illegal immigrants from EU

JAMIE SMYTH, European Correspondent, in Cannes, France
THE GOVERNMENT says it may sign up to a major new initiative designed to crack down on illegal immigration and co-ordinate asylum policies in the EU.
Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern will meet fellow EU justice ministers in Cannes today to debate a European pact on immigration and asylum.
A draft copy of the pact obtained by The Irish Times shows that it will call on EU states to expel more illegal immigrants, harmonise their asylum procedures and make more effort to integrate immigrants into their societies.
The draft pact states that the EU does not have the resources to decently receive "all who see Europe as an El Dorado".
It also warns that poorly-managed immigration may disrupt the social cohesion of host countries.
"The organisation of immigration must consequently take account of Europe's reception capacity in terms of its labour market, housing, and health, education and social services, and protect migrants against possible exploitation by criminal networks," says the pact, which has been prepared by France, the current holder of the six-month rotating EU presidency.
French president Nicolas Sarkozy has made combating illegal immigration a key priority of his country's EU presidency, arguing that migration flows across Europe mean that states cannot solve the problem alone.
Paris has also indicated that too much immigration is having a corrosive impact on EU public attitudes.
Last week French immigration minister Brice Hortefeux, who has been working on the fine details of the immigration pact, said concerns about immigration were one of the reasons why Irish voters had rejected the Lisbon Treaty last month. His statement corresponds to anecdotal comments made by many local politicians after the treaty result.
However, an opinion poll commissioned by the European Commission found just 1 per cent of voters cited immigration as the primary reason for voting against the treaty.
The draft European Pact on Immigration and Asylum is probably the most comprehensive blueprint for Europe's future immigration policy ever drawn up. It touches on a range of policy areas, including legal migration, how to integrate immigrants, making agreements with migrants' countries of origin to enable deportations, and the issue of regularising illegal immigrants.
EU ministers for justice will debate the draft pact today, and European diplomats expect them to formally sign the eight-page text in October.
A spokesman for Minister for Justice Mr Ahern said last night that the Government was favourably disposed towards the pact, agreed with most of its points, and could envisage signing up to it after debating it more closely.
A decision to sign up to such a policy document would represent a shift in Irish policy towards EU immigration initiatives.
Up until now the Government has chosen not to take part in a range of initiatives in the field, preferring to co-ordinate its policies with Britain to sustain the common travel area between Britain and Ireland. For example, recently the Government chose not to get involved in the co-called Blue Card initiative, which would enable skilled immigrants to come to the EU legally.
However, the Government has taken part in other EU initiatives to combat illegal immigration such as joint repatriation flights for illegal immigrants.
The pact estimates that about two million migrants enter the EU every year. The European Commission estimates that there are up to eight million illegal immigrants currently living in the union. More than 200,000 illegal immigrants were arrested in the first half of 2007, and fewer than 90,000 were expelled, according to the EU executive.

Irish Times

The Hijab in Irish Schools

This blog post is contributed by PhD candidate Mairead Enright whose research (on the nikah nama) is supervised by Dr. Siobhan Mullally and funded by an IRCHSS thematic grant for research into Gender, Equality, Multiculturalism and Religious Diversity

الحجاب في المدارس الايرلندية يزحف الى الصحف كما فعل في الدول الاوروبية الاخرى : مثل الدينمارك وفرنسا وبريطانيا

The issue of religious dress is at last beginning to make headlines in Ireland just as it has done in Denmark, France and the UK. Medical students who wished to wear hijab while working at Beaumont hospital (they were permitted to wear disposable hijabs) and a Sikh recruit to the Garda reserve who wished to wear a turban as part of his uniform (he felt unable to join after permission was refused) were the focus of comment in 2007. In May of this year the issue of religious dress in schools gained prominence.
14-year-old Shekinah Egan's parents requested that she be allowed to wear the hijab to school in Gorey, Co. Wexford. Her school board of management granted permission but the principal referred the question to the Department of Education, which refused to provide the guidance sought. In practice, Muslim students have had permission to wear the hijab in a number of schools for some time. However, there is no consensus on the issue; the Sunday Business Post reports that a south Dublin school has banned the hijab, citing its Catholic ethos as justification. Both the ASTI and the Irish Council of Imams have emphasised the desirability of achieving a consensus on the issue.
The current Minister for Education has said that the government will consider whether to issue guidelines on the wearing of hijab in schools when it drafts an intercultural education strategy some time later this year. It seems likely that, if guidelines are issued, schools will retain a significant amount of discretion around the issue of religious dress. As we await the department's decision, a number of important issues have ripened for consideration. They include:

ليس هناك اي مادة في القانون تمنع ارتداء الحجاب ولكن هناك من يريد ان يقنن قانونا يمنعه او يهذبه في المدارس والاماكن الحكومية
· What the constitutional position on this issue will be. To date, there is no case on point and any argument on the hijab would be from first principles. For a summary of possible arguments see Claire Horgan, "A Veiled Problem: Religion in Irish Schools" (2005) 8 TCLR 5 (Available on HeinOnline). At ECtHR level, hijab bans were upheld in the context of a teacher of young children in a non-denominational school in Dahlab v Switzerland and in respect of a university student in Leyla Sahin v Turkey (where, of course, the state's interest in preserving a policy of secularism was a core issue). Arguably, any Irish case would raise very different considerations, not least because the majority of Irish schools are Catholic in ethos rather than non-denominational. In England and Wales, school bans on forms of Muslim dress other than the headscarf - the jilbab (a long gown) and the niqab (a veil which obscures the face except the eyes) - have been upheld as consistent with the ECHR by the House of Lords and the High Court respectively. However, these decisions were made in the context of schools where alternative forms of dress which were acceptable to the majority of Muslim students in those schools were already permitted. In terms of issues of non-discrimination and freedom of religion, it may be that Ireland is largely free to carve its own path.
· Whether Ireland will follow other European countries on the retreat from normative multiculturalism, or whether aspirations for what the Statement on Integration Strategy and Diversity Management calls a "common sense" approach to cultural difference will be realised in a different form which will take account of the peculiarities of the Irish context. The education spokesmen of the major opposition parties have argued that the hijab engages crucial questions around the Irish approach to cultural difference and have called for a ban on the hijab in public schools. Labour's Ruairí Quinn stated that "If people want to come into a western society that is Christian and secular, they need to conform to the rules and regulations of that country... Nobody is formally asking them to come here. In the interests of integration and assimilation, they should embrace our culture...Irish girls don't wear headscarves." Speaking to the Irish Times, Fine Gael's Brian Hayes observed that "[t]here is enough segregation in Ireland without adding this to it." Public opinion appears to be more nuanced. Monday's Irish Times reported the results of TNS/mrbi poll on the place of the Islamic headscarf in Irish schools. 48% of those surveyed felt that Muslim students should be allowed to wear the hijab in state schools with significant differences of opinion between men and women, younger and older people, socio-economic groups and supporters of the main political parties.
· Whether it will be possible to develop policies around interculturalism which avoid essentialism and take account of the complexity of the issues at hand. For instance, the intersections of racial, cultural, religious and gender differences which characterise the hijab as a policy problem. To date, reference to gender has been curiously absent from political statements on the hijab. However, media commentary on the matter has run the full gamut of the "Multiculturalism vs. Feminism" debate. For a flavour, see Martina Devlin in the Irish Independent, Alison O'Connor in the Sunday Business Post and Breda O'Brien in the Irish Times.
· What will be the role of unelected representative bodies such as the Irish Council of Imams, which are gaining a significant role as spokesmen for religious and cultural groups, what effect their prominence in policy debates will have at a local level, and what steps will be taken to ensure that 'minorities within minorities', especially women and the young, will have a meaningful voice in negotiations around culture.
· Whether we are seeing in statements such as Mr. Quinn's assertion that "Irish girls don't wear headscarves" a nascent politics of belonging - similar to the exclusionary politics of Britishness promoted in the UK - which defines Irishness, not in terms of birth or blood, but in terms of behaviour. Would our politics of identity be able to absorb hybrid notions of identity and will the process of integration require transformation on the part of established Irish citizens as well as on the part of newcomers? The story of the girl at the centre of the current hijab controversy: Shekinah Egan; the daughter of Irish and British converts to Islam, who wears her hijab to play camogie, neatly embodies this issue.
Labels: Hijab, religion in schools, religious dress
by Fiona de Londras

Source CCJHR

Minister of Integration Mr. Connor Lenihan visited the IFI Mosque

Minister of Integration Mr. Connor Lenihan visited the IFI Mosque at South Circular Road Dublin D8,
He was welcomed by the Imam of the Mosque Sheikh Yahya Alhussaini, secretary of the IFI, and members of the Shoora council, and some community leaders in Dublin today 26th June, 2008.
The meeting was conducted in an informal manner. The minister spoke about the hottest subject, which is Hijab. He said “ The decision about Hijab is not conclusive yet, until we meet. Perhaps it should be conformed to the school uniform colour, Burqa and Niqab is an issue, he is eager to close the issue as soon as possible, or leave it up to the school to decide.”
Member said: “But there should be no political stance on such an issue”
Minister: “reduce the issue of Hijab to French ban on Hijab, which is failed, and not right”
Shoora Member said: “Rory Quinn and Brian Hayes seem to have got it wrong. Don’t have any knowledge of the subject of Hijab as it is not a symbol of Islam and it is a task and a must on a beleiving women in Jewdism, Christianity and Isalm.”
Minister: “you might need to engage them and communicate with them so they would sympathise with the issue”
Imam Yahya: “We have the development and extension of the place of worship, what would the minister’s office can offer for that?
Minister: No money this year, all the budget been distributed, you might need to apply through funding services.
The secretary of IFI: “marriage counselling, youth training, jobs, alcohol, integration, we need fund for that. It is possible through the right body.”
Member said: “Visa restriction slowed down all family reunifications”
Minister: “Immigration bill need to be rushed through the parliament, and asylum applications went down due to processing application quickly, we hope that we will address the issues in the near future”

Thank you minister for visiting our mosque.
My pleasure.





Irish Muslim Convert Mr.Mohammed Salim Lennon, spoke to the Minister for the right of burrial in his home town Dundalk. He said "most muslims who died were burried in Dublin, because of the fact that there is no Muslim burrial ground, the minister said he would look into it and try to help finding a burrial ground.



Report by Dr. Bashir

Conor Lenihan and Owen Obrian Seanfain Debate about the LT

In a debate about the Lisbon Treaty in Islamic Society of Ireland Tallaght 7/6/08 Conor Lenihan Agrees to Hijab under the Lisbon treaty also talked about the veto which they can use when there is any policy against Ireland interest.
Owen Obrian sean fain party he thinks that the Lisbon Treaty is not good for Ireland as it will take sovereignty away and the Irish army has to go to war under the EU.

Demonstration in front of the ICCI 6/6/2008 مظاهرة امام مسجد كلونسكي اليوم الجمعة

Funeral procession Thursday 27/3/2008





The parents of both Young girls "IMAN AYADI & AYAH ALZUBER" who died in the tragic accident that happened on the way to Galway for a trip for young girls organised by ICCI at Clonskeagh.



انه لمن البديهي ان الوالدين الذين ابنتهما لم تمت في الحادث وانما تضررت فرغم انها تضررت الا انهما لا زالت بينهما ويراها كلما ارادا, في حين ان الوالدين الذين ماتت ابنتهما لا يريا ابنتهما حيث وريت التراب, فالعقدة النفسية اشد وطأ على الوالدين الذين حرما ابنتهما . ولعلهم يريدون الا يروا من كان منظما لرحلة البنات موجودا بينهم وهذا شعور قد يدفعهم بان يطالبوا ادارة مجلس كلونسكي بالاستقالة.
ولهذا نسال الله ان يرزق اهالي المفقودين الصبر والسلوان وعظم الله اجرهم في صبرهم وتحمل فقدان ابنتيهما



Father of AYAH ALZUBER

angrily said " death of my daughter was a negligence of those who organised the trip as well as they have to apologise, they have to introduce an election into the mosque so the administrations has to be elected instead of appointed from outside"

Grandfather of AYAH ALZUBER holding her picture in protest

AYAH ALZUBER's auntie Fatima protesting

Brother of AYAH ALZUBER protesting for his sister death

Right father of IMAN AYADI" Bitterly saying that the mosque organised the trip for the girls therefore they should apologise in public, He accepts that it is an act of god but he says: "there is an element of negligence in leaving girls take places in the car instead of staying in the minibus with the other girls, also those in the administration should resign."


sympathiser with the parents support their opinions.

Supporters of the cause
TThe lame Ibraheem Buisir standing on his stick as always defiant and standing by the oppressed



Mothers of IMAN AYADI and AYAH ALZUBER with lots of women supporters

Freinds of IMAN AYADI and AYAH ALZUBER showing support and sympathy to the case.

IMAN AYADI and AYAH ALZUBER

Report by Bashir